Kristen and Laura Dern on the cover of LA Weekly for 'JT Leroy'

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Some called it a horrid hoax, others an outrageous scam, but the motivations behind the story of JT LeRoy — a popular literary figure from the late '90s who was revealed to not actually exist — have never been clear enough for either of those dubious descriptors. We may never know exactly why writer Laura Albert made up the personna. Was it a calculated plan to dupe people for the fun of it or for the fame she felt she'd never achieve on her own or, a crazy genius attempt to flesh out the tortured protagonist/author who brought her darkly poetic and achingly personal writing quite literally to life? Her narratives as JT LeRoy explored homelessness, sex work, child abuse, heroin addiction and living with HIV, and her style was precursory to the raw, victim-driven prose now de rigueur in personal essays and autobiographies. But back then, no one could have predicted how deeply the idea of LeRoy (the JT stands for "Jeremiah Terminator") would resonate with readers, or how the lie might snowball to such Warholian heights.

In the new Justin Kelly film named after the fictional author, the story is told from the perspective of the person who helped Albert pull off the ruse, her boyfriend's sister, Savannah Knoop. Knoop (who identifies as gender fluid, so we will use the non-binary pronouns "they" and "them" in reference) was a young woman still trying to figure who they were when Albert thrust them into the spotlight, paying them to don wigs, sunglasses and masks to play LeRoy at parties and in photo shoots, in San Fransisco where they were based, then in L.A. and then around the globe.

There's a lot of meta-layers that can get a bit convoluted here, so bear with us. Kristen Stewart plays Knoop, turning in a subdued performance that gently but powerfully conveys Knoop's still forming identity. In the book, Girl Boy Girl: How I Became JT LeRoy, which the film is based on, it is explained that in pretending to be someone who didn't exist — the bisexual, biological boy/trans girl author — this bi-sexual biological girl began to discover who they really were, which ultimately they came to refer to as gender non-conforming. Knoop and Kelly wrote the script, which offers a much more balanced view of the infamous lie's progression versus the best known documentary about the subject, Jeff Feuerzeig's 2016 Author: The JT LeRoy Story, which is essentially Albert's personal story. Another doc, Marjorie Sturm's 2014 The Cult of JT LeRoy, took a more journalistic approach to the controversial story.

Albert is played in Kelly's film with astounding, award-worthy zeal by Laura Dern, conveying sociopathic tendencies and a compulsive nature that rings true and vulnerable even as it veers into crazy town. It's hard not to be reminded of some of Dern's most iconic roles watching this one, especially David Lynch's Wild At Heart, where the actress came off equally forceful, weird and multi-faceted. Though early critiques of Kelly's film seem to see it as villainizing Albert, it really doesn't. Albert's reasonings for her original lie, which of course begets more lies that end up lasting 6 whole years, make sense most of the time, even as she embellishes certain elements seemingly for the hell of it. She also created another personna for herself to play — LeRoy's British handler Speedie, who speaks for the literary star so Knoop doesn't have to when they go out in social situations. Speedie helped keep Albert in control of her creation, which obviously felt a little less hers once it was embodied by another. The secondary alter ego gives Dern a way to conjure desperation behind the guise, adding wacky nuances to Albert's personality. Watching the film, one needs to remind themselves, that yes, this stuff all really happened. They say truth is stranger than fiction, but in this case "fiction" was the truth, and yes, this is one of those stories that you just can't make up, which is why it fascinated even those who had never heard of LeRoy before the hoax was revealed via an exhaustive New York Magazine article.

At the press day for JT LeRoy in West Hollywood, Dern and Stewart did interviews together, explaining their attraction to the story and their respective roles. Neither had read LeRoy's works nor were they very familiar with the scandal at the time it broke. Both pointed to the script as what attracted them to the project.

"Diving into this story, we had deep empathy for not only Savannah, which was frankly easy, but for Laura too," Dern explains. "To really understand why she felt she needed to do it this way ... because clearly she's a great writer. So if you love the writing, you honor the artist. But I think it was in the discovery of why— why we perceive anyway — that she needed an alter or an avatar as she called it, that really kind of cracked our hearts open to her."

Laura Dern and Kristen Stewart Bring the Existential Lie of JT LeRoy to the Big Screen
Universal Pictures Content Group
"Our attempt at telling this story could only be, quote unquote, true because perception is such a subjective thing," adds Stewart. "I always felt that Savannah's perspective of Laura was really enlightening for an outsider and very tender and admiring; always wanting to bring it back to the books and what a brilliant writer she was, to how hard she worked, how much pain she was in, how she translated that, how they shared a lot of similar pain, all of that. Even though the relationship became controlling and became codependent and dysfunctional in various ways, there was never any disdain or, like, leftover hate."

Talking to Knoop alongside Kelly at the same press event, it's clear that Stewart really got to know the person she played. Knoop gives off an amiable enthusiasm that feels — ironically — extremely real and self-actualized. The writer admits to reservations about telling their side of the story cinematically at first, but trust, time and truth helped it finally happen. Part of the obvious comfort-level comes from the fact that Kelly and Knoop have known each other for 11 years, meeting when both lived in San Francisco. Kelly is an L.A. native (he grew up in Santa Clarita) and made a name for himself as a maker of short films and protege of Gus Van Zant, who was one of LeRoy's celebrity friends and fans. Three of Kelly's previous full-length films were based on controversial true stories, so this one is not unfamiliar territory.

"It happened very organically through sort of building a friendship," Knoop says. "I think probably building the trust, too. "

Kelly read Knoop's book (which came out about two years after the scandal broke in 2006) and was enthralled. The San Francisco film school student had followed the career of local celebrity JT even before his identity was revealed, and early into the friendship with Knoop he brought up the idea of co-writing the film together. Almost a decade later the project has come to fruition starring the actress they envisioned way back then as Albert (Dern) and arguably one of the hottest young actresses in Hollywood (Stewart), the latter proving herself just as right for the role for a number of reasons, including her understanding of what it's like to grow up in the spotlight, how major fame can lead to adoration as well as antipathy (thanks to the Twilight phenom) and her honest exploration of her own sexuality (she identifies as bi-sexual).

In the film, which begins after LeRoy's first book, Sarah, is already a New York Times best-seller, Dern's manipulation is the driving force of the story, but it also suggests that Knoop's portrayal of the writer in the flesh is what took the mystique to a cult level. Either way, Albert's decision to have a biological female play her "baby" was a bold choice. Clearly, she saw something in Savannah beyond an androgynous young girl, and she says so a few times in the film: JT LeRoy was brought to life not by one of them, but both of them.

Kelly and Knoop admit that they didn't consult Albert on their version of the story, though Knoop does say they spoke with the writer (who is no longer in a relationship with Knoop's brother) before writing the book on which it's based. The memoir has just been re-released with the Dern and Stewart movie promo on the cover.

"We move through the very complicated power dynamics of the Savannah character and the Laura character," Knoop says. "We get into the nitty gritty of that and I think some people expect it must be a cat fight and who won and who lost, but actually it's neither. "

Some might say that those who championed LeRoy lost a little bit, at least in terms of reputation. Everyone from Tom Waits to Billy Corgan to Courtney Love (who makes a winky cameo in the movie as a Hollywood bigwig) fell into the fawning/conning trap of LeRoy, with the biggest (possibly) being Asia Argento, who optioned LeRoy's The Heart Is Deceitful Above All Things and made it into a movie. She was rumored to have had a relationship with LeRoy, or rather Knoop as LeRoy. Dianne Kruger plays the Argento character in the film, and there is a scene where Stewart sexually pleasures her (an encounter that sees them remain clothed and therefore leaves gender feasibly hidden).

Of course, this part of the story became more complicated (as if the story wasn't already) by a stranger — and darker — recent turn of events. Shortly after her boyfriend Anthony Bourdain passed away, Argento, who was a vocal proponent of the #MeToo movement, was accused herself of taking advantage of the young male co-star (who played her son in The Heart Is Deceitful), and paying him to keep quiet.

Kelly says the Argento scandal has nothing really to do with his film — and it doesn't literally — but Knoop takes a more esoteric approach to the Kruger character (which we had to remind ourselves, they may or may not have had an actual relationship with).

Laura Dern and Kristen Stewart Bring the Existential Lie of JT LeRoy to the Big Screen
Universal Pictures Content Group
"It's actually kind of at the crux of this story," Knoop says. "The emotional interpersonal relationship between these characters. We thought it was important to have a character where you go into the JT world, you feel like you're connecting and really vibing with someone, but are they vibing with you? It gets at the meat of that kind of intimacy and the weirdness of feeling like you're not sure if you're a projection of someone or you're actually hearing and seeing each other. Even though it's a fictional compartmentalized world, that's relatable to everyone."

Despite its outrageousness, the story of JT LeRoy touches on feelings and ideas we can all understand — not just gender identity but identity in general, as well as the pretentiousness of celebrity and the mob mentality that seems to drive social media and pop culture today. Maybe even more importantly, it illuminates how damage and struggle inspire art and why we connect so passionately with it even when we don't fully understand it. Albert created LeRoy when she was suicidal, calling hotlines as the boy character she invented. Desperate and longing for a connection she had too much shame to feel she deserved help as herself.

Stewart suggests that fans who felt anger when they learned it was all fake take a different perspective on the story, trying to understand that while the person may not have been real, the emotions were. "Those feelings were coming from the same place we've all felt them," she says. "If you're actually able to step outside and see we've all been through some shit, you realize it all comes from pain."

"That's why we're here," adds Dern, whose layered take evokes mixed emotions in JT LeRoy. "We didn't sign up for this because we wanted to expose the hoax; that's already out there. And we didn't sign up to go, 'You guys are wrong and you're crazy to feel hurt by this deception.' We sought to examine the question of why so many people can't identify as who they are. For both of these characters at this time in their lives, it was impossible for them to just be in their own skin. That is fascinating."

Kelly concurs, "In terms of how we all control how we want to be perceived, from our Facebook profile photo to what we post on Instagram, and put out there in real life, it's like we're all curating our lives. It's a wild story, but it's wildly relatable too."

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Kristen and Laura Dern's interview with Winnipeg Free Press

‘What’s up, Winnipeg!?"

That’s Laura Dern, at full volume, when a publicist tells her she’s on the phone with the Winnipeg Free Press.

"Oh, God."

And that’s Kristen Stewart, playfully laughing at her co-star.

It’s just a snapshot of the chemistry the two have together onscreen in JT LeRoy, a new film detailing the hoax that rocked the literary world in the early 2000s from the perspective of the person who ended up at the centre of it.

Dern plays Laura Albert, the fabulist who wrote a bestselling novel as Jeremiah "Terminator" LeRoy — a young southern boy writing about his life as a truck-stop prostitute and the abuse at the hands of his mother. Albert started portraying LeRoy on the phone, but as his star began to rise, she felt increasing pressure to put a face to the name.

Enter her sister-in-law Savannah Knoop (portrayed by Stewart), who pretended to be JT LeRoy at his public appearances for the better part of six years.

JT LeRoy, which opens this month, was produced by Winnipeg’s Buffalo Gal Pictures and shot in and around the city over the summer of 2017.

"It was amazing," Dern says of their time in Winnipeg. "I mean, we had summer vacation there. It was a gorgeous time to come there, and get to navigate making a small, independent film on a shoestring budget, which is more and more complicated to do, with a subject matter we see as deeply complicated and out of the box and not easy."

"And Winnipeg was deeply hospitable to that," Stewart adds. "We found a lot of our backgrounds in weird, cool little bars where cool youths were hanging out and wanted to be involved. There was a cool counterculture."

Because JT LeRoy’s star rose around the world, Winnipeg was required to double as many places throughout the film. Back-alley Exchange District murals stand in for artsy San Francisco. The ruins at the Trappist Monastery Provincial Heritage Park pass for Paris. A rural Manitoba truck stop becomes a truck stop in Tennessee.

"We definitely repurposed stuff — walls, environments, people," Stewart says. "We were throwing around T-shirts on extras."

'It was a gorgeous time to come there, and get to navigate making a small, independent film on a shoestring budget, which is more and more complicated to do, with a subject matter we see as deeply complicated and out of the box and not easy'

Indeed, it wasn’t just Winnipeg places but Winnipeggers themselves that helped shape the film.

"The one part that feels really alive in that sense is in the party scene that happens early on," Stewart says. "We shot it over a weekend with, like, whatever five to 10 people on the crew that were down to hang out with us. Everyone in that sequence is one of our friends or a relative or a person who Sav literally found at a queer bar or a weird bookstore and brought them in. They were really colouring the scene."

"Like, if you hired extras to do that?" Dern interjects.

"It would just look awkward and, I don’t know, you get what I’m saying," Stewart finishes. (I do get what she’s saying: It would look inauthentic.) "For that, Winnipeg definitely helped us out."

The film, directed by Justin Kelly, is based on Knoop’s 2008 memoir, Girl Boy Girl: How I Became JT LeRoy. Stewart wasn’t familiar with the bizarre ballad of JT LeRoy — nor the people behind him — before she read the screen adaptation.

"I read that and it was really difficult to understand how it was possible it was even real," she says. "I thought maybe they took liberties and made the story a little crazier than it had been. But then I watched the documentary (2016’s Author) and kind of delved into what happened and how many people were involved, and my head blew off. I couldn’t believe it was possible.

"After meeting Savannah — there’s a delicacy to her energy and it’s also very truthful. I was like, ‘how can someone so present, and odd, and real, and genuine in person survive something like that?’ And how the hell did all that happen? It’s a widely known subject, but this is one element that no one has heard: what it felt like to be in the middle of it.”

Stewart gets to the heart of those questions in her understated, nuanced portrayal of a vulnerable person who is trying to reconcile their own identity (and gender) while pretending to be the creation of someone else.

Knoop also provided a blueprint for Dern.

"Savannah was my way into Laura, which was quite beautiful," she says. "As (the film) is (Savannah’s) point of view, it allows Laura to be as elusive as she was to Savannah, and as she was to everyone experiencing her, as opposed to ‘Let’s know the person behind the writer.’

"It’s really about understanding what it was like to be pulled inside this world that seemingly could be a hoax but, in fact, as Savannah taught me more and more and as we learned more and more, is really about someone’s struggle with not only identity, but trauma. And how to be understood, and feeling such shame that they can’t be with themselves, that they have to create characters over and over and over again."

Dern portrays Laura Albert with incredible empathy, walking the line between a ruthless manipulator and fragile victim. She cuts a rather tragic figure, a person who believes she has to invent characters so people will like her.

(A heartbreaking detail: Laura Albert used to call suicide hotlines as different people, including JT, in order to be listened to.)

"Laura’s entire journey is about false narratives in order to be truthful," Dern says.

As a film, JT LeRoy feels strikingly timely, not only because it explores themes of identity and gender, but because it’s arriving at a time when scammers are having a major cultural moment. Stewart thinks our fascination with grifters may have something to do with our innate desire, as viewers, to solve puzzles.

"Anything that is tricky, anything you have to crack — I think an audience really, really likes to be surprised, and audiences have gotten a lot smarter, so I think there’s a, ‘Oh, wait, is there a bait and switch? Because I know I’m going to get it before anyone else.’ And if they don’t, well, I think that speaks to the angry, reactive nature of the press to JT’s life then. The wool was pulled over their eyes."

"It’s so in the zeitgeist," Dern says of grifter content.

"It’s like that movie with the people who move to D.C. and they’re living in that big house, and then there’s, like, a report that comes out and everyone is trying to figure out whether it’s fake or real...

"Oh, wait," she says, slyly. "That’s not a movie."

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Kristen and Laura Dern's interview with the Tribute (Canada)

How familiar were you with the story of JT LeRoy?

Laura: I learned about the story after the fact from a couple of friends who knew them. It was from Justin, Kristen and also the documentary that I learned more.

Kristen: Same. I was unfamiliar with all of these wild happenings. I had heard of the book and the movie, but never read them. When I read the script, one of my first questions to Justin was, “Wait, did this really happen? You must have taken liberties to make it more interesting. People couldn’t have believed this for so long.”

Laura: And speaking to how did they get away with this? I remember one of the moments that was most shocking to us that we shared — I mean we worked on it and rehearsed it — but the day we filmed the scene when they arrive at the airport in Paris in these horrible wigs and my horrible accent and everything and realizing, “They got away with this?” (laughs) It was incredible. It was really stunning. It went away when we made an effort to curate it and make them look subtler and I would work on the accent more and then someone would say, “No, it literally has to be so obvious that you’re in dress up.” Because that was part of the phenomenon, that they got away with it. People believe what you tell them.

Was that the reason you wanted to do it, because it was so unbelievable?

Kristen: I really love the idea of self-invention. I think that it’s a tricky thing to talk about because I’m also, as anyone would claim to be, a huge proponent of honesty. But at the same time, what is honesty and what is the truth and if your truth doesn’t always align with how you present it or factual details that people are addicted to, but then there’s this ambiguous story within you that feels truer to you than what it seems like on the surface. So I love that theme. And also Savannah’s story of finding herself. She has this warmth and this openness that is the opposite to what she had to convey as JT. I really loved Savannah as a character. Also as a human being, she’s wonderful — the warmest, generous, insanely intelligent, very unique weird person, and I say that in the most loving way.

Is it more challenging to portray someone who’s a real person versus a fictional one?

Kristen: It’s different. It’s a huge responsibility to make sure you’re conveying that person responsibly. Whenever I read a script and I go, “I’m telling you I can do this and I don’t feel irresponsible saying so,” that’s when I know that I should take a part. And on this, I knew it would be a little more work and it’s not as easy to live and breathe and explore, but once you put in the work and you prepare, the point is to get to the place where you can be in their skin and not be obsessed with doing a perfect impression.

How do you relate to your public persona being seen as someone you’re not and feeling other’s expectations?

Laura: Well, it’s an interesting parallel. As actors, it’s part of a story. You’re all projecting an idea of how we see a character. When it becomes personal, that’s different. It’s something every public figure navigates. In terms of taking on a role as performance art, it was of deep interest to Savannah. It wasn’t as Laura talks about in the film and did in life. It wasn’t unusual. Something we were seeing with a lot of artists, David Bowie for example, creating other characters. But what I think is beautiful about Savannah as our muse, she is so generous to Laura and it let us have a love story that wouldn’t otherwise be there.

Laura Albert wrote about a person who created a persona to survive a thing and then she asked that of Savannah. It’s like the only way she knew how to survive life was the thing she kept offering. For her, it wasn’t about a lie as much as it was a survival technique. Probably to this day, she sees JT as a part of herself. And I think for us what’s beautiful is that as actors you’re given a job and you create a character, but our job was to know each other in the deepest way. And that’s what these women had to ultimately do together.

JT Leroy By playing JT, Savannah discovered more about herself. What did you learn about yourselves when portraying these characters on-screen?

Kristen: It’s obviously very much about identity and carving that out for yourself. In making the movie I was really happy to be playing younger, because I feel like there was a normal stage of my life a couple of years ago when I felt overwhelmed, a bit of a sensory overload to the point where it’s sort of hard to know your own name. You know what I mean? Like, “I don’t know how I fit into this? I’m trying to wedge in.” That’s exactly what Savannah is doing, albeit internal but sort of creative. She asked, “What’s my part? What are things I want to say? What do I want to look like? Who do I want to be with? How do I want to identify?” I’m older than her in the movie. So one thing I realized was that I was so happy to be older (laughs), but also it was fun to shepherd that period of her life because she stands so firmly in herself now. She’s a really clear, distinct person and it was cool to go through that particular period where she wasn’t that sure and to hold her up and get her to the other side. That was fun.

Is that one of the reasons you want to start directing now?

Kristen: I have always had an eye roaring inside me. I don’t draw a huge distinction between acting and filmmaking and directing. When I was so, so young, I was fueled by the energy of people coming together and sharing an idea to the extent that they would literally do anything for it. I would love to lead that charge. Even though the best movies have a singular vision, it’s a precarious, really delicate process. You fill up this bowl of water and it takes so many hands to retain every drop and getting to the end of an experience is literally like, “Phew.” You’re juggling this really precious thing and everyone involved is sort of going, “Keep a hand on it!” And when you get to the end and most of the water is still in the bowl you can all have it. It’s just the best feeling I’ve ever had and I want to get under people’s skin. I want to fuel that because I’ve been fueled and it’s really made me. I am so lucky to have it. I don’t know who or what I would be without it so now I would like to do that with people. It’s a really natural progression, not like “I’m going to direct movies now!”

Laura: But she is a director. There are a few actors you work with, who work as a director, as we all had such an amazing experience of having each other’s back. She saw everything as a director, not just as an actor. It’s so seamless.

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Video: Kristen and Laura Dern's interview with Entertainment City at TIFF for 'JT Leroy'

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Kristen and Laura Dern's interview with Ain't It Cool

Freddy Beans:  Hello Kristen.  Hello Laura.  How are you both doing today?

Laura Dern:  Hi Fred, I’m good.

Kristen Stewart:  Hey Fred.  I’m really good man, how are you?

FB:  I’m doing pretty fantastic today, thank you.

Laura, can you give a brief synopsis of J T LeRoy for our readers?

LD:  It’s based on Savannah’s memoir.  It’s this six year experience, which she’s adapted with Justin Kelly, our director.  On its surface, it’s a radical ride for a seemingly male writer who is actually a female writer.  She asks her sister in law to pretend to be the male writer and the rest is history.  Under the surface, which is why I think Kristen and I were so passionate to be a part of it, it explores identity.  Comfort in one’s own skin.  The pressure culture puts on others to identify a certain way.  What is truth?  What is a lie?  All of these themes, I think, were fascinating to explore for us.

FB:  Self analyzation is so important and empowering.

Kristen, what was your favorite aspect of playing Savannah Knoop?

KS:  I like playing someone so young and unarticulated in terms of identity vocabulary, yet is completely herself.  It’s a young woman grappling with gender, sexuality, and her own creativity and how to funnel that.  It’s interesting having met the person at the center of this story.  She’s one of the most self-possessed people, I’ve ever met.  Finding a context for all of that confusion.  Getting in her head, as a young person on the market.  That story is very fundamental.  To take a young person with that kind of delicacy, unique nature and put here at the center of something so out of her control.  At times really salacious and others overtly admiring.  Positive reactions and negative reactions everywhere and yet none of it can be true because it’s all a lie.  Yet, it’s the most truthful thing you’ve ever done.  It’s crazy!  The relationship between Laura and Savannah and how they kind of recognized each other.  They saw the struggle within one another.  They mutually bolster that drive to arrive, where they feel comfortable.  A weird thing happens between them, a sort of co-dependency.  That constant struggle for power that happens between strong women.  Women who really do love each other but all of a sudden can become selfish and feel bad about it, after.  I found it all so complicated, true, and loving.  I thought it was important to tell the intimate story and not just be a huge salacious news story.  There’s actual human beings at the center of it.  Things happened and there’s a reason for the way it went down.

FB:  Absolutely.  You caught everything with that last piece, they’re simply human.  We succeed.  We fail.  We make mistakes and hopefully we learn from them.

Laura, did you find the character Laura Albert easy to identify with?  What were the challenges you found in the role?

LD:  I definitely didn’t find her easy to identify with but I understood her deeply.  That was the fun of the journey.  Feeling like you’re being your most transparent self, while others say you’re a liar.  I think everyone deals with self-doubt in their lives.  Someone is always projecting on you and you’re always projecting yourself onto the world.  That piece, was really, deliciously fun.  Also, trying to understand her, particularly from Savannah’s point of view.  One thing about Laura is, she was always grasping at a persona, to sort of breathe through.  She would have made a great actor.  I’m sure that’s why she’s such a great writer.  She found her breath through others interactions.  It’s an amazing experience as an actor, to try and understand that desperation.  Many of us can find that relatable.  Finding out who we are and articulating it to the world, even when it’s terrifying to do so.

FB:  Thank you for that Laura.

Kristen, THE CHRONOLOGY OF WATER by Lidia Yuknavitch will be your feature film directorial debut.  How excited are you to get cooking on this one and can you give a brief synopsis for our readers on Lidia’s life and memoir?

KS:  Lidia became my favorite writer about forty pages into her memoir and I’ve read everything she’s written since.  If I only have a minute to describe why I want to make the movie and why I think she’s truly, a remarkable human being.  It’s not necessarily the things she’s gone through in her life.  The way she’s swum through having a body and the violent things that happen to bodies.  How we can channel that into love, creativity, and art.  It’s some of the most traumatizing and revitalizing reading, I’ve ever done in my life.  It’s not necessarily different from stories I’ve heard before.  It’s her perspective.  Her perception.  The way she sees the world.  The way she admires things.  The way she consumes people and art.  The way she fucks and the way she talks about it.  She’s sort of hung her shame on a clothesline and let it dry.  Now she’s completely and unabashedly herself.  It gives the young woman in me hope for other young women.  Just absolutely breaking every pre-conceived notion of who we’re supposed to be, as a body.  Honestly, everything I’ve seen growing up, boys are allowed to be boys and girls aren’t allowed to be girls.  Girls have to be something that’s anesthetized.  Something fucking clinically clean and we’re not that.  I think the way she writes about life, it’s just staggeringly beautiful and needs to be a movie.

FB:  That’s beautiful.  Thank you for that Kristen.  Thank you both for your time.  Good luck in the future!

LD:  Thank you, you too!

KS:  Thank you, Fred.

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Video: Kristen and Laura Dern's interview for 'JT Leroy' with Hollywood XYZ

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Kristen and Laura Dern interview with The Mary Sue about 'JT Leroy'

Knoop discussed seeing their own story portrayed on screen, saying “It is very strange, and very meta. I feel grateful that it happened slowly [Kelly and Knoop have been working on the project on and off for nearly a decade], and that it’s also like plunking yourself, your experience, like becoming your own object, and watching the character as an ant moving across the table is liberating … and there’s something about that process and having the distance creates new understanding.”

Kelly discussed what he thought he knew about the story, versus what he learned through knowing Knoop and reading their memoir. “I read the memoir and I couldn’t believe the story. I lived in San Francisco during the entire JT saga, so I knew all about it, but people’s versions were ‘two women who wanted fame and money and created this fake character’ and reading the book I thought … this is such an incredible story, far more complicated than anyone thinks, and it made me really understand why they did it.”

Part of what makes the film so compelling is the chemistry between Dern and Stewart, who bring an immediate intimacy to their onscreen relationship. The two had 48 hours to prep before shooting began, and quickly connected to find the bond between Albert and Knoop.

Dern said, “I realize, when I talk about my friendship with you [Stewart], when you’re not around and someone brings up Kristen Stewart, it’s like ‘I own Kristen Stewart, I am Kristen Stewart, I know everything about Kristen Stewart!’, there’s an arrogance to it, and I realize that to do this, it was like ‘every part of your body I have to touch and be comfortable with, you get no say, I’m fucking taking you, and we’re doing this thing.'” Stewart agreed, saying “the thing is I liked it, so it’s okay.”

Dern continued, “We felt that Savannah/Laura connection. She was willing to go on that ride, and sense of self and body and ownership and boundary-lessness, and identity were all in the mix of what the story was about.” Stewart agreed, “It felt fucking great.”

Stewart also discussed playing Knoop, and what she thinks her character found so captivating about Albert, saying “On paper, you can understand why someone that age, Savannah’s age who had this creative impulse but felt like maybe who she was was confusing for people, and how to get that out was just, like unforeseeable at that point. And then you meet someone who goes, ‘God, I see every part of you and you should start running, you should start making stuff, and you should do it with me’, it’s crazy but it’s not like she was like, ‘we’re going to pull of the most extreme, crazy hoax of all time’. It didn’t seem that crazy in the beginning.”

Both actresses discussed working on female-driven projects (Dern had just wrapped the second season of Big Little Lies and Stewart just filmed Charlie’s Angels) and their enthusiasm for female-led content. Dern said, “I think continually, always longing to play characters, to tell stories that examine ‘the other’, whether it’s literally about representation and having voices be heard resoundingly in ways we haven’t seen before in film and television … we’re not one thing! We’re complicated, we’re manipulative, we’re longing, we’re desperate, it’s true it’s a lie, it’s all of it. We’re seeing that in the news every day. Just to get to play such flawed, broken, complicated female characters, which neither of would have, even as girls when we started.”

Stewart agreed, saying “It’s so expansive, so exciting actually, to be like ‘whoa there are so many things we haven’t acknowledged.’ It’s an exciting time in movies … we have so much more opportunity to tell strange stories … I’m really interested in ‘the coming of age’ story for a girl, we haven’t even, not even put a finger on it, so yeah, that’s exciting.”

J.T. LeRoy is currently playing in select theaters and is available on On Demand / Digital HD

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Video: Kristen and Laura Dern's interview with ET for 'JT Leroy'

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Behind the scenes photos from the 'JT Leroy' set

Click on pics for full view.

Photographer: Lindsey Byrnes (we're assuming she took the group pic too).

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Video: Kristen and Laura Dern's interview with eTalk for 'JT Leroy'

Kristen also talks about 'Charlie's Angels' in this interview.

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Video: Kristen and Laura Dern talk 'JT Leroy' (Instantv TV)

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Video: Kristen and Laura Dern's interview with The AV Club

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Video: Kristen and Laura Dern's interview with Good Day LA for 'JT Leroy'

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Video: Kristen and Laura Dern talk to ET Canada about 'JT Leroy'

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Kristen and Laura Dern talk to Refinery 29 about 'JT Leroy'

Refinery29: Laura, your character Renata Klein on Big Little Lies is one of a troupe of iconic liars. Laura Albert in JT Leroy is a very different sort of liar. Between Laura and Renata, who's the better liar?

Laura Dern: "They’re not even on the same planet! I’m really interested in people who tell the truth, and those women believe they’re telling the truth. That’s where I think they’re similar. Their truth is their truth. Renata is someone who feels so projected upon by the world. What’s beautiful about JT LeRoy is despite the seeming hoax, there’s a real purity to these female characters. They're both desperately longing to find self and identity. Laura felt to me like a cat in a bag. Scrambling to get any way to get the truth out and not to be seen. I was very heartbroken and moved by that."

In a way, you both share the role of JT LeRoy. How did you work together to create JT?

Kristen Stewart: "We had all the footage and photos of their appearances, as well as interviews and people’s impressions of them from that time from the documentary. But I had to take the part from Savannah. I listened to Laura Dern read a story as JT, not necessarily Laura Albert. We needed to make it together."

Dern: "Which is amazing. I almost forgot about that, that we both played that person. Some of the scenes were hard to get to and really refine, but also fascinating — it felt like working on a play together — were these scenes in her office where Laura is pulling Savannah in."
Stewart: "And pulling JT out."

Dern: "There was a desperate need to have an avatar. And to find a muse that would keep that avatar alive. I believe that was really true for Laura."

Stewart: "I think she saw a displaced energy in Savannah, and she said, ‘Hey, I’m going to make you feel better about having that, because I have it.’"

Savannah and Justin said they were interested in the why, not the how, of the women's scheme. Have you come to your independent conclusions as to why Laura and Savannah sustained JT for six years?

Stewart: "How it happened is a judgmental standpoint. To say how: How would people want to lie about something so personal to other people? How did this all happen? But why makes a lot of sense. Given all the details, you understand why Savannah would want to be around such a compulsive artist and such an infectious person — she was trying to find herself in a world that wasn’t really listening, in a world that definitely found her confusing and when she was confused herself. She found Laura, a talented writer who's also her big brother's girlfriend, who was able to say, ‘You can take your agency by the scruff of your neck if you want to.’ Until then, no one told Savannah that. I totally know why Savannah would’ve gotten wrapped up in this and lost control halfway through. It’s easy once you get to know them to not judge so harshly."

And Laura has another set of reasoning.

Dern: "I can’t speak for Laura Albert. I’m an actor just trying to find my way in [from] a place of empathy. To understand the why. JT LeRoy is from Savannah’s perspective — the goal was to create Savannah's experience of Laura versus Laura’s broken-down innards. But I had to know them anyway. From my perspective and from what I learned on the outside, Laura was someone who was feeling uncomfortable in their own skin for a very long time. She'd already invented JT. If someone is calling suicide hotlines as another person for help, there’s a lot of shame and trauma there. An invention of another self in order to be heard breaks my heart. At the core, it’s what Savannah related to, and it’s what so moving about this movie.
"JT is a part of her. JT was alive in her. She did want to give JT a body and a voice. That has some real depth to it. I don’t think it’s a lie or a hoax. I think it’s steeped in a lot of truth. Then, it gets out of hand — there’s media and people needing things from her and JT. But I think it’s about a need to heal. "

What was involved in the JT disguise?

Stewart: "It was trippy. As both Laura Albert and Speedy [Albert's disguise as JT's manager], Laura's face is very much hanging out. I felt like I was being John Malkovich. I could only see a little bit through the glasses and wigs. I grumbled a little bit. Savannah would talk about the immense amount of anxiety she felt when people would address her, and she had to speak as JT. She got better at it as time progressed and was able to develop aspects of JT that she owned. Typically, though, she was on this simulation ride, and I felt that as well.

"It was nice, too. We had a lot of extras on the movie and oftentimes if I get self conscious or shy around a ton of people, it was nice to have the disguise. It really works. I went away. I didn't exist anymore."

This disguise can be your new thing when you’re out in public.

Stewart: "Yeah, yeah. People will think that supes normal. That'd be really good for me."

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Kristen and Laura Dern's interview for 'JT Leroy' with Vulture

There are so many levels to each of your performances in this film. You’re playing people who are playing people who are playing people. How did you keep from getting lost in those rabbit holes?

Kristen Stewart: I think … the point of it was to get a little bit lost in the rabbit hole. In a somewhat measured way, obviously, so the story makes sense and you don’t lose your fuckin’ mind. [Laughs.] The story is from Savannah’s perspective, about a woman telling her story [who] needs somebody else to tell her story from a wildly altered perspective. Bringing someone in to find themselves through something that’s untrue, but then is ultimately true — God, it chases its tail into a Tasmanian devil storm.

That wasn’t well-articulated, but I don’t know a good way to put it! I felt a closeness and a kinship with Savannah for a lot of reasons. I felt utterly seen by Laura [Dern], and I thought that that really reflected the way that Savannah and Laura Albert’s characters related to each other. Though we have a pretty healthy relationship, comparatively.

Laura Dern: Yeah!

KS: But who knows, it hasn’t been as long.

LD: Just give us time. [Laughs.]

Kristen, can you speak more about this kinship you felt with Savannah? Because having followed your career, she does seem similar to you in a lot of ways. You’ve spoken in the past about your own uncomfortability with press, with red carpets, with leading a public life, and about your own sexuality —

KS: While we were making this movie, Savannah identified as “she,” and now they identify as “they.” In terms of the process and the evolution of being a person and being a self, I can relate to that unarticulated nature — of [not having] answers to very, very demanding questions. It’s something I’ve always been a little weird with — not opposed to, because that makes it sound like I’ve really articulated it. But I’ve had this physical aversion to nailing things down in a way that’s digestible for other people. There’s this misconception that, if you’re able to state something as simple and easy and confidently, you’re more self-possessed or more realized. That’s not true. I only recently became comfortable with that idea.

And fuck, thank God — I think it just happened in our current times, too. It’s easier to have a longer conversation that requires patience, versus fucking five years ago, when people were demanding that I come out as gay. And I was like, “Dude, how do you know? I don’t even know!” It was crazy. For me and Savannah, I do relate to the idea that they’re a complex person who’s never going to stop changing. Not changing as in, “becoming who you’re supposed to be.” You’re always who you’re supposed to be. There’s just an evolution there. It’s not that easy to know people, and I think we’re all [developing] better intentions in terms of knowing each other. We’re gaining patience with that. It’s not an easy thing. I have a very easy relationship with identity, I just don’t have an easy relationship with conveying that identity to the masses.

LD: This is some amazing and articulate dialogue.

KS: I’m really on a tear. [Laughs.] My progress has been kind of retroactive. Maybe I was really frustrated [in the past], trying to conduct interviews that I was clearly, like, failing miserably at. But I think the kids watching those interviews probably looked at me and thought — and the reason why I’m now [looked up to] by them — “We’re a generation that doesn’t have to identify as one thing if we don’t want to.” I’ve been involved in a narrative that I wasn’t aware of. And I feel that way about Savannah. I look up to them in such a foundational way. If you consume any of their art, look at their fucking Instagram, you’ll know why I look up to them. They’re a courageous, authentic, unique person. It’s not always been easy to be that.

I do think things have changed drastically in the past five years in the exact way you’re talking about, Kristen. It’s much easier to exist in that in-between space. Your career has, too — you’re playing a lot of roles where women are either openly or subtly queer. What’s behind that choice?

KS: It’s not conscious or intentional. But I think it’s natural. We’re all drawn to the things we’re drawn to. I didn’t call my agents and say, “This is my direction now. All of my choices have to reflect my — you ready for this? — my fucking TRUTH!” [Laughs.]

LD: But [that] also speaks to Kristen’s boldness, which is a rare gift. You know better than anybody as a film journalist — it’s rare that the artist is matched by the human. That’s what I fell in love with in Kristen. She matches it by saying, “This is who I am. These are the things that interest me. Let’s have a conversation. Let’s make a film to ask more questions, not because we need to shove a moral down anyone’s throat.” She expresses herself as an individual, and that’s a rare, beautiful thing.

KS: This is Laura Dern. I take her everywhere I go. [Both laugh.]

Can you guys talk about how you developed this friendship? What’d you do on the set when you weren’t filming?

LD: We talked about this movie when we weren’t filming! And when we had social time, Kristen adopted my teenage son, who is obsessed with her. They became besties. That made it easier. I had a built-in nanny, co-star, love interest — an all-in-one. The film is a love story; it’s complex, it’s about intimacy, there’s love-hate. But in real life, we get to be buddies. Plus the nanny thing. It’s a small, indie movie, so we couldn’t really fly a nanny out. [Laughs.]

Laura, how old is your son? And why was he so obsessed with Kristen?

LD: He’s now 17, so he was 15 at the time. Turning 16.

KS: I travel with my best friend [Suzie Riemer] when she can, and Laura does, too. So we had a little crew. And we were just like, “Ellory, come over here!” I know what it’s like to grow up on a set, because my mom was a script supervisor, and you want someone to grab you and make you part of the fold, because we’re all stuck here. Also, by the way, Ellory is incredibly fucking cool. When I was 16, I was a serious dweeberson. We were obsessed with him, to be honest. Me and Suzie were marveling at how dope he was for his age, and how dorky we were. Now he’s cooler than our friends.

LD: My compliment back to Kristen is she comes at it with truth. She allows him to be an adult in the room. It’s not like, “Oh, what are your interests?” She was like, “Dude, what are you feeling? What’s happening?”

KS: And he answered everything!

LD: He likes to go deep too.

KS: It was an amazing experience. And we got to wear wigs the whole time.

I’m curious if you guys find the performance inherent in this movie similar to the performance of fame. Do you ever feel like you’re more of a persona than a person, or that the public is trying to craft your narrative for you?

KS: I’ve always really fervently fought against that. But I felt it an immense amount. I’ve had people really close to me for years be like, “Why don’t you make it easier on yourself? When you go to a press day or do an interview or a red carpet — you’re an actor! Can’t you do things that won’t make people write weird shit about you, or have conversations that are hard?” And I’m like, “No, I would rather have them.” I’d rather not be, or not be an actor, if I was just a big lie.

LD: I feel the same. Interestingly, it’s how our friendship developed. Because we met doing press. We met on a Kelly Reichardt movie, Certain Women, having been in different stories [within the film]. But we were paired together for press. And we were like, “Whoa! It’s somebody who wants to answer in the same way, and try to be very available, and maybe even vulnerable in press.” Ten years ago it was easier to be at a junket and hear an actor do what Kristen just said. “Hey, you gotta do your press, just create a story.” But now [actors and the press are] on the same team. Not that we weren’t, but we have a mission. The artist and the press are equally in that “fake news” category, and we want the truth to be exposed through art and through journalism. We have an opportunity to talk about real things, so let’s use it. It feels like we’re part of a tight-knit community now. And it’s a gorgeous feeling you didn’t really have before.

Can you both identify when you felt that shift, when you felt like you could be vulnerable with the public?

LD: I prefer to not identify it! [Laughs.] No, I’m kidding. We’re on a roll here.

KS: Did you play the game more when you were younger? Or you were always the same?

LD: I’m literally staring at my publicist I’ve had since I was 19 years old. And I think she’s thrilled that I’ve finally started to want to be a little bit more aware of self-preservation. [Both laugh.] I was raised by hippie vigilante actors to just say what’s true, speak your political truth, talk about global warming. I made a comedy about abortion! I didn’t require a shift, but I think I thought we were supposed to answer all of the questions, even the ones about relationships. Now I don’t answer those questions. I’ve become a grown-up. For me, it took having kids. I don’t think I was as wise as Kristen. Now I’m protecting them, so I create false narratives to make things sound a little bit kinder at times. I’ve loved everyone I’ve ever loved and worked with! [Laughs.] Other than that, I tell the truth about all else.

KS: This goes right back to what we were talking about with the — fucking Goddammit — the sexuality, the gender stuff! It’s the same — relationships, personal stuff. You feel a responsibility to not be this fake thing, sitting in front of people, thinking you have anything interesting to say outside of trying to sell a movie. People ask you questions, and it’s your responsibility to answer those questions, right? Because I’m not just fucking here to be famous. So yes, I want to give you myself. But when people start asking for things that aren’t you, so they can take you, and morph you into a commodity and sell you? That is not your responsibility, to provide them an income. Like, fuck you! But when you’re little, how do you know which questions to answer, and which to not? It takes growing up, and going, “I know what matters to me and what I care about.”

LD: To go even deeper — because we’re on a tear! — how about the fact that we’re the only girls in the movie? We were with five guys doing press, and the five guys weren’t asked the same questions. I’ve dated musicians and actors, and I’d be like, “Oh my God, [this reporter] asked me so many questions about us.” And the guy would say, “They didn’t ask me anything.” But now that we’re working together as a community of actresses.

KS: We’re all talking, guys!

LD: We’ve all had the same experience. If a man said, “Oh, wouldn’t you like to know?” The journalist would say, “Oh, isn’t that adorable?” And then if we said, “Oh, I’m not comfortable with that question,” the journalist would say, “Really? Why aren’t you? Why aren’t you?”

KS: “What are you hiding?”

LD: There was bullying in a different way.

Speaking to this idea of a persona, do you guys follow the internet discourse around you at all? 

LD: No. Oh, God, are you gonna tell me?

KS: You’re shining! Everything I ever see about you is very un-sordid.

LD: I will share things about my views or whatever, but I don’t read anything. I’m unaware. Are you aware of how you’re talked about?

KS: I used to be so aware when I was younger. Because it was so … so bad.

LD: Even I knew! It was everywhere.

KS: I was really curious. I needed to not have people know stuff about me that I didn’t know. At a certain point, I stopped that. Because I actually, genuinely — if there was a way to turn myself inside out, or say this while being X-rayed, you’d know I was being honest. I stopped caring. And it got so much easier. I genuinely stopped giving a fuck what the headlines were, what the articles were. And now, if I Google my name and I read the stuff, I look at it like it’s absurdist art. “Oh, cool, look at this weird thing!” I’m not saying everything is not real. Everyone’s opinion and perception is their own, and if you see a picture of me, walking down the street, that happened. But I used to be aware of it because I cared, because I wanted to control it. And now I control it by not caring. Which is ironic, but it works.

When and why did that change?

KS: I think a couple years ago. I got busy. The further I got away from being a kid, it got easier. And this sounds so, literally, such a circle-jerk — but I’ve also been famous for a long time. The first couple years, I couldn’t understand how many people were in the room. When I put them all out of the room, I realized I could just be myself.

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Video: Kristen and Laura Dern's interview with E! News for 'JT Leroy'

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Kristen, Laura Dern, Justin Kelly and Kelvin Harrison talk to THR at the 'JT Leroy' LA premiere

Kristen Stewart says her new film JT LeRoy, which is out Friday, can help teach about the journey of gender identity.

The film, based on a true story, follows author Laura Albert (played by Laura Dern) who writes books under the pen name JT LeRoy, the son of a truck stop hooker. When the popularity of the books grow, Laura enlists her sister-in-law Savannah Knoop (Stewart) to pretend to be the male persona and make public appearances. (Knoop, who uses they/them pronouns, released their memoir in 2008 titled Girl Boy Girl: How I Became JT Leroy, which is the basis for the film).

“It's a journey and it's one that requires patience and actual care for other people," Stewart told The Hollywood Reporter at the ArcLight Hollywood premiere on Wednesday about the story. "I think if you become confused and therefore righteously indignant that you're being judged for not understanding, it just means that you don't want to. If you really want to understand and care about other people, it might take a minute, because maybe there's not one word for it. Maybe it requires 10 sentences and that's fine, too.”

Stewart added that the shift toward understanding gender fluidity and identity has only become “a thing” in the past couple of years. “God, like I was answering questions that negated this point two years ago and feeling like I had to answer them, when I'm like, 'Dude, can we not get to the point where we don't?’” Stewart told THR.

“You should have room to find it for yourself,” Dern added to THR. “Maybe it's the individual who doesn't know. Beautiful thing.”

Director Justin Kelly stresses that it’s both “bizarre” and enlightening how Savannah is learning more about “who she is as a person” by playing a fictional male character. “If anyone were to see it and think that they could be whoever they wanted to be — that's not the goal of the movie in terms of lying to people, but in terms of embracing who you really are as a human being — then that can be one great thing to take away from it,” Kelly told THR.

“Everything is way more fluid and way more gray than anyone wants to believe,” added co-star Kelvin Harrison Jr., who plays Sean (Harrison describes the character as "kind of like queer ... I kind of wanted to have a masculine femininity.”)

Stewart said she realized after reading the script how much more “wild” and “insane” and “salacious” the story must’ve been than it looked on the outside. “Obviously, it was this elaborate story that wasn't necessarily representative of a black-and-white truth, but I found so much truth within the conception of that story involved with Savannah and Laura,” Stewart said. “It's really an epic tale and it's really worthwhile because it concerns identity and finding your own agency as an artist.”

Dern agreed: “It's about finding yourself and to find your truth through lies is a really fascinating journey.” She believes, in her character’s case, that she was creating veils in order to be the artist she wanted to be and to express that she had been traumatized and abused — “and didn't know how to say it for herself, as though she was almost not entitled to that or would be judged for it. And she learned about identity and freedom of art in a way through this muse that became the body and the being that spoke to this invention that was her pain.”

On the red carpet at the premiere, Dern and Stewart displayed their friendship, greeting each other with a hug and doing joint interviews together. “She's so brilliant and eloquent,” Dern gushed of Stewart. “[It] was a very intimate and amazing experience to do with a fellow actor and buddy.”

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Video: Kristen and Laura Dern's interview at the 'JT Leroy' LA premiere with AP

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Video: Red carpet and cast interview at the 'JT Leroy' premiere in LA (OHT)

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