Video: Savannah Knoop talks 'JT Leroy' and mentions Kristen with Pink News

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Kristen on the cover of 032c magazine, Issue 36 - photographed by Collier Schorr

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Issue 36 is out now. It can be ordered online here.

Interview and photoshoot was done during Kristen's visit to NYC for the Met Gala.

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Kristen and Laura Dern on the cover of LA Weekly for 'JT Leroy'

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Some called it a horrid hoax, others an outrageous scam, but the motivations behind the story of JT LeRoy — a popular literary figure from the late '90s who was revealed to not actually exist — have never been clear enough for either of those dubious descriptors. We may never know exactly why writer Laura Albert made up the personna. Was it a calculated plan to dupe people for the fun of it or for the fame she felt she'd never achieve on her own or, a crazy genius attempt to flesh out the tortured protagonist/author who brought her darkly poetic and achingly personal writing quite literally to life? Her narratives as JT LeRoy explored homelessness, sex work, child abuse, heroin addiction and living with HIV, and her style was precursory to the raw, victim-driven prose now de rigueur in personal essays and autobiographies. But back then, no one could have predicted how deeply the idea of LeRoy (the JT stands for "Jeremiah Terminator") would resonate with readers, or how the lie might snowball to such Warholian heights.

In the new Justin Kelly film named after the fictional author, the story is told from the perspective of the person who helped Albert pull off the ruse, her boyfriend's sister, Savannah Knoop. Knoop (who identifies as gender fluid, so we will use the non-binary pronouns "they" and "them" in reference) was a young woman still trying to figure who they were when Albert thrust them into the spotlight, paying them to don wigs, sunglasses and masks to play LeRoy at parties and in photo shoots, in San Fransisco where they were based, then in L.A. and then around the globe.

There's a lot of meta-layers that can get a bit convoluted here, so bear with us. Kristen Stewart plays Knoop, turning in a subdued performance that gently but powerfully conveys Knoop's still forming identity. In the book, Girl Boy Girl: How I Became JT LeRoy, which the film is based on, it is explained that in pretending to be someone who didn't exist — the bisexual, biological boy/trans girl author — this bi-sexual biological girl began to discover who they really were, which ultimately they came to refer to as gender non-conforming. Knoop and Kelly wrote the script, which offers a much more balanced view of the infamous lie's progression versus the best known documentary about the subject, Jeff Feuerzeig's 2016 Author: The JT LeRoy Story, which is essentially Albert's personal story. Another doc, Marjorie Sturm's 2014 The Cult of JT LeRoy, took a more journalistic approach to the controversial story.

Albert is played in Kelly's film with astounding, award-worthy zeal by Laura Dern, conveying sociopathic tendencies and a compulsive nature that rings true and vulnerable even as it veers into crazy town. It's hard not to be reminded of some of Dern's most iconic roles watching this one, especially David Lynch's Wild At Heart, where the actress came off equally forceful, weird and multi-faceted. Though early critiques of Kelly's film seem to see it as villainizing Albert, it really doesn't. Albert's reasonings for her original lie, which of course begets more lies that end up lasting 6 whole years, make sense most of the time, even as she embellishes certain elements seemingly for the hell of it. She also created another personna for herself to play — LeRoy's British handler Speedie, who speaks for the literary star so Knoop doesn't have to when they go out in social situations. Speedie helped keep Albert in control of her creation, which obviously felt a little less hers once it was embodied by another. The secondary alter ego gives Dern a way to conjure desperation behind the guise, adding wacky nuances to Albert's personality. Watching the film, one needs to remind themselves, that yes, this stuff all really happened. They say truth is stranger than fiction, but in this case "fiction" was the truth, and yes, this is one of those stories that you just can't make up, which is why it fascinated even those who had never heard of LeRoy before the hoax was revealed via an exhaustive New York Magazine article.

At the press day for JT LeRoy in West Hollywood, Dern and Stewart did interviews together, explaining their attraction to the story and their respective roles. Neither had read LeRoy's works nor were they very familiar with the scandal at the time it broke. Both pointed to the script as what attracted them to the project.

"Diving into this story, we had deep empathy for not only Savannah, which was frankly easy, but for Laura too," Dern explains. "To really understand why she felt she needed to do it this way ... because clearly she's a great writer. So if you love the writing, you honor the artist. But I think it was in the discovery of why— why we perceive anyway — that she needed an alter or an avatar as she called it, that really kind of cracked our hearts open to her."

Laura Dern and Kristen Stewart Bring the Existential Lie of JT LeRoy to the Big Screen
Universal Pictures Content Group
"Our attempt at telling this story could only be, quote unquote, true because perception is such a subjective thing," adds Stewart. "I always felt that Savannah's perspective of Laura was really enlightening for an outsider and very tender and admiring; always wanting to bring it back to the books and what a brilliant writer she was, to how hard she worked, how much pain she was in, how she translated that, how they shared a lot of similar pain, all of that. Even though the relationship became controlling and became codependent and dysfunctional in various ways, there was never any disdain or, like, leftover hate."

Talking to Knoop alongside Kelly at the same press event, it's clear that Stewart really got to know the person she played. Knoop gives off an amiable enthusiasm that feels — ironically — extremely real and self-actualized. The writer admits to reservations about telling their side of the story cinematically at first, but trust, time and truth helped it finally happen. Part of the obvious comfort-level comes from the fact that Kelly and Knoop have known each other for 11 years, meeting when both lived in San Francisco. Kelly is an L.A. native (he grew up in Santa Clarita) and made a name for himself as a maker of short films and protege of Gus Van Zant, who was one of LeRoy's celebrity friends and fans. Three of Kelly's previous full-length films were based on controversial true stories, so this one is not unfamiliar territory.

"It happened very organically through sort of building a friendship," Knoop says. "I think probably building the trust, too. "

Kelly read Knoop's book (which came out about two years after the scandal broke in 2006) and was enthralled. The San Francisco film school student had followed the career of local celebrity JT even before his identity was revealed, and early into the friendship with Knoop he brought up the idea of co-writing the film together. Almost a decade later the project has come to fruition starring the actress they envisioned way back then as Albert (Dern) and arguably one of the hottest young actresses in Hollywood (Stewart), the latter proving herself just as right for the role for a number of reasons, including her understanding of what it's like to grow up in the spotlight, how major fame can lead to adoration as well as antipathy (thanks to the Twilight phenom) and her honest exploration of her own sexuality (she identifies as bi-sexual).

In the film, which begins after LeRoy's first book, Sarah, is already a New York Times best-seller, Dern's manipulation is the driving force of the story, but it also suggests that Knoop's portrayal of the writer in the flesh is what took the mystique to a cult level. Either way, Albert's decision to have a biological female play her "baby" was a bold choice. Clearly, she saw something in Savannah beyond an androgynous young girl, and she says so a few times in the film: JT LeRoy was brought to life not by one of them, but both of them.

Kelly and Knoop admit that they didn't consult Albert on their version of the story, though Knoop does say they spoke with the writer (who is no longer in a relationship with Knoop's brother) before writing the book on which it's based. The memoir has just been re-released with the Dern and Stewart movie promo on the cover.

"We move through the very complicated power dynamics of the Savannah character and the Laura character," Knoop says. "We get into the nitty gritty of that and I think some people expect it must be a cat fight and who won and who lost, but actually it's neither. "

Some might say that those who championed LeRoy lost a little bit, at least in terms of reputation. Everyone from Tom Waits to Billy Corgan to Courtney Love (who makes a winky cameo in the movie as a Hollywood bigwig) fell into the fawning/conning trap of LeRoy, with the biggest (possibly) being Asia Argento, who optioned LeRoy's The Heart Is Deceitful Above All Things and made it into a movie. She was rumored to have had a relationship with LeRoy, or rather Knoop as LeRoy. Dianne Kruger plays the Argento character in the film, and there is a scene where Stewart sexually pleasures her (an encounter that sees them remain clothed and therefore leaves gender feasibly hidden).

Of course, this part of the story became more complicated (as if the story wasn't already) by a stranger — and darker — recent turn of events. Shortly after her boyfriend Anthony Bourdain passed away, Argento, who was a vocal proponent of the #MeToo movement, was accused herself of taking advantage of the young male co-star (who played her son in The Heart Is Deceitful), and paying him to keep quiet.

Kelly says the Argento scandal has nothing really to do with his film — and it doesn't literally — but Knoop takes a more esoteric approach to the Kruger character (which we had to remind ourselves, they may or may not have had an actual relationship with).

Laura Dern and Kristen Stewart Bring the Existential Lie of JT LeRoy to the Big Screen
Universal Pictures Content Group
"It's actually kind of at the crux of this story," Knoop says. "The emotional interpersonal relationship between these characters. We thought it was important to have a character where you go into the JT world, you feel like you're connecting and really vibing with someone, but are they vibing with you? It gets at the meat of that kind of intimacy and the weirdness of feeling like you're not sure if you're a projection of someone or you're actually hearing and seeing each other. Even though it's a fictional compartmentalized world, that's relatable to everyone."

Despite its outrageousness, the story of JT LeRoy touches on feelings and ideas we can all understand — not just gender identity but identity in general, as well as the pretentiousness of celebrity and the mob mentality that seems to drive social media and pop culture today. Maybe even more importantly, it illuminates how damage and struggle inspire art and why we connect so passionately with it even when we don't fully understand it. Albert created LeRoy when she was suicidal, calling hotlines as the boy character she invented. Desperate and longing for a connection she had too much shame to feel she deserved help as herself.

Stewart suggests that fans who felt anger when they learned it was all fake take a different perspective on the story, trying to understand that while the person may not have been real, the emotions were. "Those feelings were coming from the same place we've all felt them," she says. "If you're actually able to step outside and see we've all been through some shit, you realize it all comes from pain."

"That's why we're here," adds Dern, whose layered take evokes mixed emotions in JT LeRoy. "We didn't sign up for this because we wanted to expose the hoax; that's already out there. And we didn't sign up to go, 'You guys are wrong and you're crazy to feel hurt by this deception.' We sought to examine the question of why so many people can't identify as who they are. For both of these characters at this time in their lives, it was impossible for them to just be in their own skin. That is fascinating."

Kelly concurs, "In terms of how we all control how we want to be perceived, from our Facebook profile photo to what we post on Instagram, and put out there in real life, it's like we're all curating our lives. It's a wild story, but it's wildly relatable too."

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Kristen and Laura Dern interview with The Mary Sue about 'JT Leroy'

Knoop discussed seeing their own story portrayed on screen, saying “It is very strange, and very meta. I feel grateful that it happened slowly [Kelly and Knoop have been working on the project on and off for nearly a decade], and that it’s also like plunking yourself, your experience, like becoming your own object, and watching the character as an ant moving across the table is liberating … and there’s something about that process and having the distance creates new understanding.”

Kelly discussed what he thought he knew about the story, versus what he learned through knowing Knoop and reading their memoir. “I read the memoir and I couldn’t believe the story. I lived in San Francisco during the entire JT saga, so I knew all about it, but people’s versions were ‘two women who wanted fame and money and created this fake character’ and reading the book I thought … this is such an incredible story, far more complicated than anyone thinks, and it made me really understand why they did it.”

Part of what makes the film so compelling is the chemistry between Dern and Stewart, who bring an immediate intimacy to their onscreen relationship. The two had 48 hours to prep before shooting began, and quickly connected to find the bond between Albert and Knoop.

Dern said, “I realize, when I talk about my friendship with you [Stewart], when you’re not around and someone brings up Kristen Stewart, it’s like ‘I own Kristen Stewart, I am Kristen Stewart, I know everything about Kristen Stewart!’, there’s an arrogance to it, and I realize that to do this, it was like ‘every part of your body I have to touch and be comfortable with, you get no say, I’m fucking taking you, and we’re doing this thing.'” Stewart agreed, saying “the thing is I liked it, so it’s okay.”

Dern continued, “We felt that Savannah/Laura connection. She was willing to go on that ride, and sense of self and body and ownership and boundary-lessness, and identity were all in the mix of what the story was about.” Stewart agreed, “It felt fucking great.”

Stewart also discussed playing Knoop, and what she thinks her character found so captivating about Albert, saying “On paper, you can understand why someone that age, Savannah’s age who had this creative impulse but felt like maybe who she was was confusing for people, and how to get that out was just, like unforeseeable at that point. And then you meet someone who goes, ‘God, I see every part of you and you should start running, you should start making stuff, and you should do it with me’, it’s crazy but it’s not like she was like, ‘we’re going to pull of the most extreme, crazy hoax of all time’. It didn’t seem that crazy in the beginning.”

Both actresses discussed working on female-driven projects (Dern had just wrapped the second season of Big Little Lies and Stewart just filmed Charlie’s Angels) and their enthusiasm for female-led content. Dern said, “I think continually, always longing to play characters, to tell stories that examine ‘the other’, whether it’s literally about representation and having voices be heard resoundingly in ways we haven’t seen before in film and television … we’re not one thing! We’re complicated, we’re manipulative, we’re longing, we’re desperate, it’s true it’s a lie, it’s all of it. We’re seeing that in the news every day. Just to get to play such flawed, broken, complicated female characters, which neither of would have, even as girls when we started.”

Stewart agreed, saying “It’s so expansive, so exciting actually, to be like ‘whoa there are so many things we haven’t acknowledged.’ It’s an exciting time in movies … we have so much more opportunity to tell strange stories … I’m really interested in ‘the coming of age’ story for a girl, we haven’t even, not even put a finger on it, so yeah, that’s exciting.”

J.T. LeRoy is currently playing in select theaters and is available on On Demand / Digital HD

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Behind the scenes photos from the 'JT Leroy' set

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Photographer: Lindsey Byrnes (we're assuming she took the group pic too).

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Video: Red carpet and cast interview at the 'JT Leroy' premiere in LA (OHT)

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Video: Savannah Knoop and Justin Kelly talk 'JT Leroy' and mention Kristen at the BFI Flare: London LGBTQ Film Festival

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'JT Leroy' premiere at the BFI Flare: London LGBTQ Film Festival - 31 March 2019

Tweets from the post-screening Q&A:

• When making JT Leroy, “Laura and Kristen clicked immediately… lot of Laura Dern's dialogue was improv.” Says director Justin Kelly #BFIFlare #KristenStewart
• JT Leroy has a, “total dream cast…had we known when we started that [#KristenStewart and Laura Dern] would have taken those roles I would have completely lost my mind.” - Justin Kelly
• JT Leroy starring #KristenStewart and Laura Dern is a captivating retelling of one of the literary world’s most infamous hoaxes. Justin Kelly said, “I love stories about scandal…you could never make this sh*t up.” 

Tweet from Savannah Knoop's conversation before the premiere:

• Today at #BFIFlare whilst discussing JT Leroy, Savannah Knoop said that, "Kristen Stewart does a really good job in the film. My mom saw the film and said that she's like the James Dean of our generation."     

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Kristen, Laura Dern, Justin Kelly and Savannah Knoop talk 'Jeremiah Terminator LeRoy' at TIFF

Interview is from the press day roundtable discussions.

Justin, why would you say you gravitate toward real stories?

Justin Kelly (JK): Well, I have done three, and honestly it's not seeking true stories out, it just keeps happening. But I will say, of course, I wouldn't tell them if I didn't love them. I think it's, you know, truth is stranger than fiction, and there are so many amazing stories out there, and there is something with each one. There is something that feels very good about trying to find and craft a true story.

There's a tabloid one liner - for my first film (I Am Michael), it was something like ‘Gay Activist Becomes an Anti-Gay Pastor’, you know? And this one is, ‘Two Women Trick the Literary World’. And it's kind of fun to do research - whether there's a book involved or an article or something - and tear it apart and try to find the real story behind that tabloid one liner. There's something very fulfilling for me about doing that.

Savannah Knoop (SK): Mystery is so much about a reveal. You look at the reveal then you go backwards and it's like this tangling of all these people's lives.

JK: Through her details.

What was your first conversation like? Justin, were there things that you especially wanted to bring out of Savannah's story - that you encouraged her to hone in on?

JK: I think for me, since I was living in San Francisco when the whole thing happened, and was truthfully obsessed with the story- I loved the book Sarah, but more so when I would look through images in magazines and see JT's photo, and then reading Sarah, it was just like ‘What is happening?!’

I didn't think it was fake, I mean the rumors surrounding whether or not JT was real, as you see in the film, made people believe even more, because if he wasn't real then why is he out in the world? Why is Courtney Love saying they're friends?

SK: Why?!

JK: I believed it! So for me it was reading the memoir (Girl, Boy, Girl) and after I finished the book, I thought, ‘Oh my god, this story is something completely different. It's so much more complicated than what some people would say,

‘These women who tricked everybody for fame and money’, that's not what happened and that's not what this story’s about, so, when I read it, it was less of me wanting something from Savannah and more so me realizing that she already had this incredible story written down, that we wanted to realize.

Savannah, are you still in contact with Laura Albert at all?

SK: Occasionally we email. We send each other YouTube links that we think the other would enjoy. She will see the film.

A decade ago, Albert didn't have the nicest things to say about the prospect of you writing your memoirs...

SK: For sure. That's true. I mean actually when I first started, like after the reveal, I said ‘Wow, this is crazy. I have to start writing this down and figure out what had happened and I asked Laura to do it with me. We should kind…

Collaborate?

SK: Yeah, kind of go back together, and she wasn't interested in that. And so when I wrote the book, in some ways it was sort of a breakup publicly. There's that line, “Just because you played a writer doesn't mean you are a writer” (Albert’s initial response). It's interesting. It's an interesting statement in context. But obviously I think she's an amazing artist, and I have a lot of respect for her and I probably wouldn't have engaged in the first place if I didn't feel that way.

I enjoy the meta moments in the film that tease reality, like the cameo from JT’s old friend, Courtney Love.

JK: Yeah! Right? That's another moment where it's like that person actually was involved.

SK: She doesn’t play herself. She’s a producer.

Did Love enjoy being a part of the film?

JK: Yeah she did. We were really hoping to have at least one of the real people involved, meaning one of JT's friends, and Courtney Love, being a seasoned actress, felt like the logical first idea. I really had no idea if she would say yes or not. She just kind of liked the idea of this full-circle moment after having been friends with JT for so long out, being able to come back and play a fake character herself in the JT story. She was so cool, so fun to work with, and I was there when she saw Savannah for the first time.

Tell me about it!

JK: I can't remember what she said. But it was something like “I know you... Get over here!”

What were the biggest changes from your first draft to your final draft?

SK: So many.

JK: In the first draft, Laura and Savannah travel basically. It was like you see how Savannah becomes JT. They go to all these places and then the movie ends. And then in the last draft we sort of removed the information, the exposition with travel- I mean they still travel in the film, but… I remember a particular producer friend read the first draft - that we thought was so good, of course - and he was like, "This story's incredible. I love it, but I don't know who these two women are."

So the biggest change was flipping it and making it less so about JT and how they pulled it off and more why, really getting into their lives, which is why so much of the film takes place in their apartments, really, or inside. I almost think people when they get to see it will expect a much broader scope. But the story just became better and better and better the more we get more internal and intimate.

At this point, Justin and Savannah leave to join another small table of journalists as Kristen Stewart and Laura Dern take their seats across from us. A fellow to my right begins the conversation by comparing the onscreen relationship of Laura and Savannah to Clarence and Alabama of True Romance, adding that, “of course there is some inequality in this powerplay…”

Kristen Stewart (KS): It is a love story, 100 percent, which is strange because if you look at the story on a surface level, you can make assumptions that might lead you in the wrong direction. Such as, ‘Oh Savannah was manipulated and she was swept up in something so much larger than her, and there was this weird Svengali like figure behind the curtain.’

They were both really facilitating, in an ironic way, very, very deep embedded truths. They're sort of allowing each other to have them and really taste them. They really saw each other and they were really deeply protective of one another and still are. And they spent so much time together as well that they became a little consumed and a little addicted and codependent to a certain extent. And that's obviously never the healthiest thing, but real like real rock 'em sock 'em love stories are never healthy. It was really fun to get to know them as a couple.

Laura Dern: It was amazing!

KS: She just keeps saying that. (Teasingly imitating Dern) “Everything was amazing!”

(Laughter)

LD: It was! I mean, that part of it was forever a love story. We had to find each other in it, and it got to be this amazing incredible human being who was as generous as Savannah is. (Gazing at Kristen) You open your heart, you tell me the truth with your eyes. (Turning back to us) You don't get that even from the finest actors. It's a different requirement to be an open human being.

What excited you most about taking on your individual roles?

KS: Well, the story takes place over like six years. When you meet Savannah, in the beginning of the story, she's a really sort of a lovely, fragile, delicate little forest animal. Seeing someone like that get swept up in something so much larger than her and then come out the other side of it the way that she did, and the sort of self exploration and sort of articulation of her identity was, to me, just like so cool.

And I think that I wanted to protect that. I wanted to protect her. I didn't want anyone to come in and fake that, because I have experience with that. I know what that feels like to be affected by the fact that maybe the way you're presenting doesn't necessarily line up with how you're feeling inside, and struggling with that and being in the public eye. It was so meta, I was like, ‘Dude, I got you. I know exactly how to protect you in this and tell that story truthfully.

And then, additionally, I think that Laura and Savannah's dynamic - the ‘art as savior’ story - is also something that runs through my veins. I think that if I didn't have my outlets, I don't know who I'd be, how I'd feel, I don't know how I'd survived, so I think it's a survival story on another level... and a dope love story and a weird and cool part of history.

LD: (Enraptured by Stewart) Oh! Um, same. Ditto.

KS: “It was amaazing!”

(Everyone laughs)

LD: Yeah it was soooo amazing!!

I mean, your character, Laura, is so complicated. We fault her, but we also feel for her, thanks to you.

LD: Well, that certainly was, as an actor, a great, delicious challenge that made me want to do it. If I read (a character) and don't know how to find deep empathy, then I want to take it on to figure it out, because it means I'm not seeing the truth, and I'm not being generous.

So then I want to find my way to understanding her, someone who's that desperate to be heard or be seen. It was an incredible opportunity to try to figure that out. There were moments where I felt venom and viscousness but I love her. Unfortunately, and fortunately, we've not been our best selves in our deepest love stories.

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Press day for 'Jeremiah Terminator LeRoy' at TIFF - 15 September 2018

   

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Director Justin Kelly and Savannah Knoop talk about 'Jeremiah Terminator LeRoy' and Kristen with Vanity Fair

Since Kristen Stewart left the Twilight franchise, she’s used her star power to help get a series of thoughtful, indie movies made—the latest being Jeremiah Terminator LeRoy, Justin Kelly’s fascinating film about the the wildest literary hoax of our lifetime. That the story also examines gender fluidity—a subject on which Stewart has spoken about before—and thoughtfully probes issues of identity may have been an added allure for the César-winning actress.

In the film, which premieres this week at the Toronto Film Festival, Stewart stars as Savannah Knoop, the artist who helped author Laura Albert (played in the movie by Laura Dern) dupe the public into believing the myth of JT LeRoy. Albert wrote three books under LeRoy’s name, and pretended to be the pseudonymous persona—purportedly a teenage boy who wrote semi-autobiographical fiction—over e-mail and phone. Knoop, who was Albert’s sister-in-law, donned a blond wig and sunglasses to play LeRoy in public, fooling a cult of famous fans including Courtney Love (who has a cameo in the film), Gus Van Sant, Madonna, Winona Ryder, Carrie Fisher, and Bono. Though there have been other movies made about the hoax, Jeremiah Terminator LeRoy—which is based on Knoop’s memoir Girl Boy Girl: How I Became JT LeRoy—is the first to be told from Knoop’s perspective.

After Stewart got ahold of the script, she reached out to Kelly, whose previous films I Am Michael and King Cobra explore queer issues. (Kelly joked that the LeRoy movie is the third in an “accidental trilogy.”) Stewart immediately won Kelly over with “her energy and her thoughts on the story, and the fact that, at the time, she was kind of going through a very similar trajectory as JT, dealing with issues of sexuality and being in the public eye kind of thing,” he said.

In preparing for the role—a complicated exercise in playing a character who is playing another as the primary character transforms—Stewart met with the real-life Knoop and did extensive research.

“One of the main things that felt clear as Kristen and I met was that she had studied JT’s character from all of the various public sources, and had it down,” Knoop e-mailed Vanity Fair on Monday. “She is a skillful physical mimic and, I remember, one of the first days on set, seeing her do a sort of turned updown smile that was more of a nervous grimace, and thinking, that’s JT! There was also a clap with flat, stiff palms—jilted and emotional. She really perfectly captured the discomfort of Laura’s character, as well as the headspace of me playing that character. She had also read my memoir, Girl Boy Girl, so she had all of the emotional mapping from that, and when we came together I could feel her pocketing Sav solo gestures as well. The main point that I gave her was to play Savannah as someone open, and curious; someone who could discover themselves by going deeply into JT’s character.”

The film is part coming-of-age love story, as Savannah—while in disguise as JT—falls for an actress named Ava Avalon (Diane Kruger). Boundaries are blurred on different levels as the two have a fling, and Savannah finds herself pulled between her affection for Ava—who does not know her true identity—and a boyfriend in San Francisco, who does.

Given the complexity of the story, it took Kelly and Knoop—who met through a mutual friend in 2009—nine years’ worth of script drafts until, as Knoop wrote, “the logistics faded and the emotions materialized as one clear trajectory.” Like Stewart, Dern also expertly inhabits alter egos including Speedie, a British handler who accompanied Knoop’s LeRoy while traveling.

When Jeremiah Terminator LeRoy filmed in Winnipeg last summer, Knoop got along so well with Stewart and Dern that the co-screenwriter extended what was supposed to be a several-day visit. “The vibe of us all being there was just so on point,” said Kelly, reminiscing about evenings at his Airbnb discussing the script over wine and Thai takeout.

Before filming, Kelly asked Van Sant—whom Kelly considers a mentor—for his blessing on the project. Kelly was heartened to find that both the filmmaker and Love supported the movie, in spite of the fact that they had been duped by its characters. “I think in Courtney’s mind and Gus Van Sant’s, [the hoax is] too weird and brilliant to be that upset about,” said Kelly. “Like, you feel weird at first, and then it’s like, ‘Well, I’m not going to be butthurt for the rest of my life.’”

Asked what Kelly learned about human nature from being steeped in this hoax for nine years, Kelly paraphrased something Albert once said herself: “You can create a character, get someone to believe you, and then drop your accent or take the wig off, and people will still believe who you are. Because who you said you are is so ingrained in their mind that they’re not just going to stop believing it. Savannah, as JT, would at times take the wig off. There are photos of Savannah as JT looking so much like her real self—a woman—but people still believed it.” (Today, Knoop prefers they/them pronouns.)

The film’s lesson about human nature can be applied to current events as well. “I don’t want to get political, but in our current climate, there is another character right now who’s very JT-esque—who has messy hair, a signature hat, and lies out of his teeth,” said Kelly. “But people just keep believing and believing and believing, even when every single thing he says is revealed to be a complete lie. There are a lot of correlations right now with what’s going on in politics and JT. It’s really funny to me—this ability to spin lies and get people to believe you even when those lies can be completely debunked.”

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First look of Kristen as Savannah Knoop/JT Leroy + interview with Justin Kelly and Savannah Knoop with W Magazine

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When Savannah Knoop offered the director Justin Kelly the rights to her 2008 memoir Girl Boy Girl: How I Became JT Leroy, it began a nearly decade-long development process to bring the story to the screen. The film chronicles Knoop's experience as she became swept up playing the mysterious alter ego JT Leroy, who was created by her sister-in-law, the San Francisco-based writer Laura Albert. In public, Knoop embodied the elusive gender-fluid teenage author who became a national phenomenon in the early aughts. Eventually, Kristen Stewart signed on to play Knoop, and Laura Dern took the buzzed-about role of Albert.

The story of JT Leroy is a saga worthy of the screen, and is one that still lives in infamy. Also the subject of last year’s documentary Author: The JT Leroy Story, the adventure began with an unknown writer called Terminator, whose acclaim in underground lit circles caused him to spiral into a fever dream of cult celebrity status. Revealed to be Jeremiah “Terminator” LeRoy (JT for short), the writer published a series of acclaimed magic-realist books chronicling his experiences as a queer, gender-fluid teenager, raised in rural West Virginia by his prostitute mother. Celebrities and the media devoured the novels, Sarah (1999), The Heart is Deceitful Above All Things (1999), and Harold’s End (2005). Fashion and Hollywood became obsessed with the elusive author, who often appeared at photoshoots and events in a blonde wig, sunglasses, and black hat, hobnobbing with everybody from Winona Ryder to Asia Argento, Courtney Love, and Bono. But it was all a lie. Albert was behind the persona of JT, authoring the books and posing as him on phone calls and emails; Knoop became the public face, putting a person to the name for cameras and public audiences, while Albert tagged along as a brash, British woman named “Speedie.” When an explosive New York Magazine piece outed the two of them, Albert’s literary world came crashing down, and Knoop was left to pick up the pieces.

Now, with the film freshly wrapped, Kelly and Knoop (who co-wrote the film) are offering W an exclusive first look at Kristen Stewart in character as both Savannah and JT, and Laura Dern as Laura Albert. They also hopped on the phone to discuss working with the two A-list actresses, perfecting characterization through wardrobe and hair, and privacy and identity in a post-JT Leroy world.

You’ve been working on this project for a very long time. How does it feel to be on your last day of production?

Justin Kelly: It feels amazing. Savannah and I started working together in late 2009. We’ve been writing, rewriting, developing and getting it off the ground for so many years that it feels amazing. It’s wild.
Savannah Knoop: And it feels like it took as long as it needed to take. We just kept writing and working and thinking about it until it was time to go.

I know the casting process was a big element in getting the film made. Laura Albert, for those who know her, is kind of a larger-than-life character. And with Savannah, you’re casting yourself, which is also daunting. How did you end up with Laura Dern and Kristen Stewart in these lead roles?

Knoop: We’ve always had Laura Dern in our earliest preconceptions of the character. Images of her were actually even in our first lookbook.
Kelly: She’s obviously a genius, and it was very surreal that we were lucky enough to get to work with her. She got the layers of the part in a way we didn’t expect, and it became very exciting. I think people are going to be enamored at the complexity of her performance as this eccentric genius.
Knoop: And she plays it with so much heart. Laura [Albert] is so dynamic and complicated as a character. It was always about merging her interior sense of self and her public sense of self. It felt like this total gift, because she could flip so fast into these different parts of the character. She’s a master of improv, which felt essential to capturing the essence of Laura Albert. One of the things that’s key to the character is how funny she is, and Laura Dern is hysterically funny. And when it came to Kristen, I didn’t have any preconceptions about who was going to play me. I didn’t have any idea. It’s a queer coming-of-age story, which is different from an ingenue coming-of-age. The character is a mix of being in control of her destiny, and letting life take her where it may. It felt exciting to think of Kristen playing the role because it felt like she could identify emotionally with that.
Kelly: I first met with Kristen about two years ago, and she really truly understood the material. She asked a lot of questions I hadn’t even thought about. The nuances that she brings to this character are really incredible—it’s almost hard to talk about. She’s such a precise, detail-oriented actor, and she never stopped getting to know the character, just like you never stop getting to know a person.

In a way, both Laura and Savannah are shapeshifters. So you have actors playing characters but then the characters are also playing characters.

Kelly: Right, you constantly have Laura Albert switching between playing a 20-year-old West Virginian gender-fluid person on the phone and this loud British woman, “Speedie”, in person. Laura Dern had to navigate those three roles.
Knoop: And, for both “JT” and “Savannah”, Kristen really embodied her research into the dual characters. She’s a master at copying gesture—she would do this mouth thing, and I was like, “That’s me!”
Kelly: We got to do a bunch of test shoots, and Kristen worked on this very particular kind of smile that Savannah does herself, but which becomes more exaggerated when Savannah is dressed up as JT. I remember sending a photo of that moment to Gus Van Sant, because he had met Savannah as JT, and he couldn’t believe that it was Kristen. He was like, “That is Savannah, you’re playing a joke on me.” So I was like, “Oh my god, we’re doing something right!”
Knoop: One thing I didn’t think about until we were watching it was that it played almost like a fairy tale. To see JT and Speedie traveling through airports, these freaky people—their looks are so maximal. You enter this world where these people are their superhero personas; their secret selves, but in public.
Kelly: Totally! And for me, it was the first film I’ve done where we had the time to develop their looks with hair, makeup, and wardrobe ahead of time. They both have these very iconic personas that involve lots of wigs and disguises. It was pretty exciting to build these characters with them.
Knoop: And the looks are key because they change the way the characters were behaving and moving. What you put on makes you feel differently, act differently, and relate to the world differently.

In these behind-the-scenes images, you can see Kristen Stewart going through so many hair phases as Savannah. Was it weird to relive your own haircut history?

Knoop: She was a hair-hopper! That was one of the initial grounding points for her character.
Kelly: Kristen has about five hair looks in the movie, because Savannah was in her twenties, a young queer finding themselves. And Laura Dern has six wigs for Speedie. If you Google Image search any of it from that time, it really was that extreme. The crew members would go, “How did anyone believe this?”

Last year, the documentary Author: The JT Leroy Story came out. Watching it and looking back on Speedie and JT, they look like such criminals. If you encountered them, you would probably know right away they were up to something.

Knoop: That was always a huge part of the original JT mystique. It was an Emperor’s New Clothing sort of a thing. The more excessive of a disguise, the better.
Kelly: We did think about doing a softer version of the looks to make it more believable, but decided to go for it. And a lot of them are completely emulating the original ones. This is a project where wardrobe, hair, and makeup really got to use all of their talents and creativity.
Savannah, as a writer and producer on the movie, it must have been really uncanny to watch actors re-enact things that actually happened to you. Did you ever feel like you were experiencing déjà vu?
Knoop: Yeah, I did! It’s intense. In a way, the project was an exercise in taking something you remember and layering it over, and over, and over. The only thing I can think to compare it to is where you look at a photograph and the photograph becomes the access point to your memory. In making this movie it’s like a snowstorm of transposing memories over each other. And a movie is a more compressed version, so you’re trying to find the emotional arc through all of the noise.

Now that shooting is almost over, how do you feel this movie takes that time in your life and relates to our current moment, in regard to identity?

Knoop: I think we are in a different moment culturally now than when it all happened. Language is shifting and the conversation is becoming wider and more complex. It is a queer story. It is multilayered.
Kelly: Agreed. In the eight years that we have been working on this, ideas of gender and queerness have shifted in a way that we weren’t even totally aware of. For example, Laura or Kristen would be talking about JT and say, “He’s not confused about his gender, he just likes to play with gender.” When your two lead actors understand that, and you realize your audience will understand that as well, it totally changes how the story could be heard and felt.
Knoop: We’re trying to be honest to what the story is about, which is the messiness of intimacy. It’s about how you can get so close to somebody and it becomes so complicated, you know? It’s about queering relationships and it’s not necessarily about tagging an identity. It’s about identity being fluid and how that works within all human relationships.

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